2018-11-25 Coast to Coast – Bob Lazar/Jeremy Corbell

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George Knapp (00:00):

Bob Lazar, the topic of this new film by Jeremy Corbell. The topic of this program tonight, things have been sort of like a jungle filled with perils and dangers. Back in May of 1989, I was hosting the five o’clock news on KLAS. We had a five minute interview segment in each program, five days a week, and we had a last minute cancellation, and it occurred to me, gosh, we got to fill this with somebody. Interesting. I called up John Lear, I said, Hey, Lear had told me in late 88, so 30 years ago, that he knew a guy he thought was going to get a job at Area 51 and might know something about ET technology out there. So I called Lear up, said, Hey, you think your saucer buddy could do the interview and Lear calls back? Yes, you have to black out his face.

(00:52):

So we did this interview with a guy, the shadowy guy named Dennis, blacked out his face, and he first told the world this incredible story and people have speculated about why Bob had come forward, even though he wasn’t using his name or face at that time, why he came forward. He must be making a ton of money, he must need the attention. He’s a disinformation agent working for the government, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All kinds of different scenarios that people generally made up for Bob. Things were pretty simple though. He was trying to stay alive, and when I said at the beginning of this program, it’s one of those things where you had to be there. This is what I meant, is that there were so many strange things that happened to him, threatening things, messing with his mind, with his life, and whoever was doing it took direct action. That really crossed a line back then. So Bob gave the interview because he wanted to stay alive. The people who were around him at that time can testify to that. One of them was interviewed for Jeremy’s film. We’re going to hear a clip of that right now. It’ll be just a second. This guy’s name, name is Mario.

Jeremy Corbell (02:02):

What your name and what’s your relationship to Bob Azar?

Mario Santa Cruz (02:04):

My name is Mario Santa Cruz, and I met Bob actually in my neighborhood. He lived one block over. My attraction to Bob was his jet dragster. So I saw this jet dragster sitting out in front of his house in our neighborhood, which was extremely, just the jet dragster alone was rare, but in my neighborhood to see something like that was unbelievable.

Jeremy Corbell (02:28):

People were harassing Bob, threatening him. And you were with him in one of those experiences.

Mario Santa Cruz (02:34):

At least one a couple of times. Actually. I actually had a weapon with me when we rode together because he had been shot at, he just wanted to stay alive. That’s why he exposed himself, how he pulled out of it. He dug deep. It’s a pretty incredible story.

George Knapp (02:59):

So people who were not there at the time, I have a hard time getting their heads around this. Were their threats real? Were they really messing with Bob? Were they breaking into his house, into his car, threatening his life, shooting in his tires? Were those things real? Well, we’re going to ask the man himself, Bob Lazar. He’s here with us and we’re going to jump right into that in just a moment. Stick around. Welcome back. The moment has arrived here. Bob Lazar is the president of United Nuclear. It’s a company that specializes in research and development of cutting edge technologies, design and manufacturer of radiation detection equipment and retail of scientific equipment and supplies. He previously was a senior staff physicist out there in the Nevada desert, and also worked as a physicist on advanced projects at Los Alamos National Laboratory. And in 1989, he went public with a story that is the subject of Jeremy Corbell‘s new film about advanced alien technology being hidden and tested in the Nevada desert. Bob, great to have you here.

Bob Lazar (04:03):

Thanks, George. Good to be here.

George Knapp (04:04):

I’m sure you’re thrilled.

Bob Lazar (04:07):

Yeah. Can’t you tell it in my voice? Yeah.

George Knapp (04:09):

Yes I can. I want to talk about the sound bite we just heard from your friend, Mario, about those days. People have come up with all kinds of reasons about why you came forward in the first place. Either you made it all up or you were working for the government as a disinformation agent and the purpose was to tell the story or they allowed you to know this information, figured you would leak it to John Lear and you would distract attention away from something else that was really secret out there at Area 51. Can you go back in time to that period about why you came forward, and then we’ll get into sort of reacting to the conspiracy theories that have popped up ever since

Bob Lazar (04:53):

Some of those theories are really entertaining, and that one that you just mentioned is kind of ridiculous. But anyway, what are we asking here about Mario or

George Knapp (05:07):

What was going on in your life that made you take the step of going forward with that story, doing the first interview, the Dennis interview, and then agreeing to go on camera with us later on?

Bob Lazar (05:19):

Well, as you know, it was a really complicated situation at that time, and I had given permission to have my phones monitored while I was going through my security clearance. Now, boy, I’m wondering how to do this in short form because it’s kind of a long story.

George Knapp (05:42):

That’s all right. We got time.

Bob Lazar (05:44):

Yeah, I guess we do. I still going through the clearance process now. I had already had Q clearance, civilian top secret clearance from Los Alamos that they reactivated, but this required some additional checking into my background or something along those lines. So I wasn’t allowed full access and I was only permitted out to the site occasionally. And what happened at that time was I was really keeping with the program and hadn’t even said anything to my wife about, certainly not about what I was working on, but the hours they were calling me to go to work were really odd, and some of the times it was later in the evening. Anyway, to make a long story short, I would get calls odd hours saying it’s going to be 4 56 now within an hour or so, you need to be at McCarran airport and get on a flight there and go out to the base. And this happened fairly frequently, and my wife at the time began to think that I was having an affair, and this story about going out to a job was just something I fabricated to cover it up because who has a job at these odd hours and disappears for long periods of time Anyway, at the time she was taking flying lessons and she began to have an affair that was being monitored by whoever it was FBI or whatever agency. Does the clearance check on you,

(07:52):

And I’m trying to

George Knapp (07:55):

Remember

Bob Lazar (07:56):

Exactly how this went down.

George Knapp (07:58):

Did they tell you?

Bob Lazar (08:01):

What was that?

George Knapp (08:02):

Did they tell you? Did someone from the government come and tell you, Hey, your wife is fooling around? Because that becomes a security concern, I would imagine.

Bob Lazar (08:11):

Yeah, the way it is, I mean, not only do you have to have no connections to foreign governments and that sort of thing and be a somewhat stable person, but your family life, your home life must also be stable. So that began to be a problem and they let it proceed for a little while, and then they stopped calling me into work, and this is basically when the problem began. So I believe it was, well, shoot, I really can’t remember the date. In any

George Knapp (08:55):

Case,

Bob Lazar (08:57):

That’s pretty much what started the whole thing, and they put my clearance on hold at that point. I think I started,

George Knapp (09:12):

You were getting threats, right? I mean, eventually you started getting threats, is that right? Or at least threatening things happening, break-ins at your house, that sort of thing?

Bob Lazar (09:23):

Yeah. Well, I mean, what really happened first was people started appearing in front of my house just watching the premises. Now, this was never part of the clearance process before, and I began to get a little concerned. Everywhere I went, I was being followed. Now where I wasn’t before, and I started to get a little concerned about this, they had already given me a lot of classified information and now there’s no response when I call the person my contact out there, they’re not calling me into work anymore. So I started getting a little concerned, and this is when I first started telling some friends about it, because at that point, I didn’t know what was going on. I started worrying and I just wanted to tell someone, Hey, in case something happens to me, maybe they decided, look, you can’t be part of the project, but we’ve told you too much and you need to disappear, or something like that. I know it sounds like it’s right out of a movie, but that’s honestly what was going on in my head. So I told, that’s when I started telling some friends and when I actually took some people out there to see what was going on, well, outside the base when I knew the test flights were in process

George Knapp (10:48):

And we know where it went from there. Subsequently, after you do that interview, you get called from Dennis Mariani, your superior, who oh my gosh, he was pretty upset. And then things got worse. Mario referenced carrying a gun, and I remember going to your house after there’d been a break in and you’re peering out of the window holding an Ozzy. And as I’ve said earlier in the program, I don’t know if you’re able to listen to it, but those things were real, that was really going on. There was a lot of tension. There were mind games being played, and it’s hard to convey that what it was like back then for the people who already don’t want to believe your story, but it was real. All that stuff was real.

Bob Lazar (11:32):

Yeah, it was absolutely real, and it was very, very confusing. 30 years later, I hesitate in telling the story because I don’t want to get the order. Things happened and wrong. Things happened so quickly, and I was in such an incredibly stressed out to condition. Mario and I, we at the time were going to this little place right near me just to work out, and we would go at different times almost every day, and we always took my car. We drove out there one night and got out of the car, locked the doors, went inside, worked out for half an hour or so, came back out the doors, the hood, the back hatch were all wide open, and we checked the car very quickly, made sure nothing was stolen, nothing was touched, and we just looked at each other going, oh my God, we left the car open and maybe a couple kids came by and just opened everything up, so we let it go. Anyway, next time out there, the same thing happened again. But after we got out of the car that time, we both checked the doors. And when we came out, that was a real shocking surprise.

(13:10):

We had no idea what was going on at that time. And being followed constantly, I began to wonder, are they doing this just to fool with me or show me that they can just get in anywhere? So that’s when we started carrying weapons with us. And in fact, the final time after this time, we just stopped going. That’s when I carried a submachine gun with us and I left it in the car with our wallet and we locked the doors and we’re only going to be in there a short time. And sure as hell, we came out, the doors were open, the hatch was open, and there was the gun, our wallets and everything just sitting there. So it was no random person doing that. They certainly would’ve taken the gun and the wallets, and it really started getting even worse from there. I don’t exactly remember when I spoke to John Lear about this.

George Knapp (14:28):

People would say the fact that you knew John Lear would be a disqualifier for you, that there’s no way that they would ever allow you anywhere near the program or that base if you knew John Lear at all, because they figure out if there’s any risk that John Lear would leak it. They’re not going to put you into the job. How do you reconcile?

Bob Lazar (14:49):

Well, I remember when I started telling John about what was going on, if it was before or after that, the dates are kind of fuzzy in my mind. And when I was interviewed, they asked me about a lot of stuff and they did ask me about John Lear. They wanted to know he was a friend. I said, yeah, I’ve known him for, I dunno, I guess about a year or something at that point, maybe a little less. But I said, that’s all he is. Just a friend. They asked me about, pretty much everyone else I knew too. They seemed to know who all my friends were already. So there was no big deal. So I don’t see that being a problem. A lot of people said, well, you can’t possibly have gotten a job out there knowing John Lear. And I don’t think that was a factor. In fact, Kathy, I don’t know if you remember Kathy George from, she used to work at Goldstone receiving Station out there, and she died recently, but before she did, she was able to get a job out at Groom Lake and she put my name down as a reference. What I thought was hilarious, you’ll never get a job doing that out there. And she still got cut stationed out there, which was really a surprise to me. So apparently your friends don’t have a big influence on your security clearance.

George Knapp (16:38):

You have to be careful in anything you say in a public setting, right? I mean, that lesson was learned a long time ago because the UFO people will parse everything you say, put into some kind of timeline. If you say anything that’s at odds with anything you’ve ever said before, you get pounced on, right?

Bob Lazar (16:58):

Yeah. That happens constantly. And quite frankly, I just say things differently all the time. I mean, I am not reading from a script. This is how I remember, and we’re talking about 30 years.

Jeremy Corbell (17:16):

Can I make a comment about that?

Bob Lazar (17:17):

Yeah,

Jeremy Corbell (17:18):

Yeah. I think it’s listening to Bob talk here on the radio and having spent so much time with you, Bob, I mean, it pains me because I can hear that it is difficult for you because you feel like you’re accountable for every date and every detail. And we know this is 30 years ago. I just want to know the overall story. People I think are beyond that now, trying to entrap you into everywhere, but it has affected you. It has affected your life. You’re such a literal, scientific minded person, and it’s painful to hear that when you’re struggling because you want to make sure that you’re not misunderstood. I am so glad. I am so glad we made this movie.

Bob Lazar (18:00):

Well, I am too. And yeah, it is difficult because all I have to do is I slip up. It’s like I get attacked just using a different phrase. It’s ridiculous. Nobody talks exactly the same way every single time. They tell us a story. I don’t understand. But like I mentioned in the movie, these events actually did occur. You don’t have to believe it or like it, but they did.

George Knapp (18:32):

We’re going to get into some of the specifics in a moment. Going to go to a break now, talking with Bob Lazar and Jeremy Corbell about the new film, Bob Lazar, area 51 and Flying Saucers from 1989, Stevie Rayon and Crossfire, which could be the title of Bob Lazars life story. He’s been in the crosshairs of a lot of people. Ufologists, cranky, UFO researchers, government agents who were really messing with his mind back in 1989. A primary reason why he came forward, spoke to us. And so we have to ask why he would be speaking now to Jeremy Corbell. Why allow him into his home, into his inner life and tell him what’s going on inside his family and tell that story and stir things up all over again. We’re going to get into that next, on this segment of coast to coast am we’re back with Bob Lazar. Jeremy Corbell. Bob, tell me this, why stir it all up again? Why jump back into this? Let Jeremy into your house. Who knows? He may have taken the silverware, you don’t know why, jump back into the frying pan.

Bob Lazar (19:39):

Well, that’s a good question. Question aside from Jeremy hounding me, I constantly receive emails, questions from people, and a good deal of people just want to know where are things these days, whatever happened, did it continue? What’s going on? How did it affect your personal life? And I don’t know what the main thing was that finally made me agree to do it, but I did. I guess it was just to take care of some of the questions that so many people were asking. And it actually turned out to be kind of a surprise to me. I thought we were talking about something that had come to an end and just talking about life afterwards. And to my surprise,

George Knapp (20:38):

Some of it is very emotional in the film. It’s a side of Bob Lazar that very few people ever see. And I was surprised by how much you opened up to Jeremy, but it was clear that this takes a toll over the years. The constant pounding, the little sniping that you get in addition to the questions. And of course, I still get ’em every single day as well of the same stuff over and over, but you get a special brand of it and that adds up, I guess, doesn’t it?

Bob Lazar (21:10):

Yeah, it does. And it kind of wears you down after a while, especially considering the way information is passed around on the internet these days. It’s way different than it was back in the eighties. You get these bizarre scenarios that people come up with and people just seem to eat that stuff up and it’s complete nonsense. And I guess that’s a good portion of it too. I just wanted to put something down on the record. Hey, this is the way it happened. I’ve seen, even when I’ve agreed to do interviews before, even with Bigger, I think who was at, not the Travel channel, but maybe the history channels and producers with that, I’m not quite sure who it was, but they’ll shoot an hour or two worth of video, do an interview, get the story, and then weave something together, and then six months later they’ll just take little pieces out and assemble it into another story or connect it to something else and just have clips of me in there. So it appears like I’m verifying something. The bottom line is I just wanted something in its entirety, something that wasn’t going to be reedited, just to get the facts straight of what had happened and what’s going on these days.

George Knapp (22:47):

But the facts are you really did work out there, S four side of the building, a side of that mountain, papoose Lake nine craft that we didn’t make right?

Bob Lazar (22:57):

Yeah, let’s get that straight right now. Everything I said is exactly as I said it. There’s no if, ands or buts about that

George Knapp (23:10):

Jeremy people, they’re in one camp or another. There’s never going to be proof unless they open up the hangar doors and trot out one of the saucers and admit they’ve been lying to this about this all these years. I mean, chances are that’s not going to happen. Maybe not in our lifetime, but will your film, does this change the dynamic of the debate about Bob?

Jeremy Corbell (23:36):

Yes. Yes it does. This is driving me crazy. I’m listening as if I’m a fan on the radio. Yes, it does. I mean, here’s the deal, man. We’re living in a different world. We’re living in a world where the New York Times came out and said that the study of UFOs did not end in 1969. We have active UFO identification programs right now. It completely alters the light in which you hear Bob talk. He’s an understated dude. Sorry Bob. I’m going to talk like as if you’re not here on the phone.

(24:08):

I’ll go for it. He’s an understated dude. Maybe it takes a little bit more to really understand, and I think you see that in the film. Bob is telling you he worked on flying saucers with gravitational field propulsion systems, not reactionary systems at a sub base of area one called S four in the side of a mountain. Every other liar and faker and charlatan has come forward, repeated his words over and over and over, and twisted the story to a point where I think I got really lucky. And I was like, Bob, look at this. Look what somebody else thinks. Look at these socks. Somebody’s printing with your face on them. Oh, look at these spandex pants. Oh, look what they said about you. They’re saying this about you. I think I just prodded him enough where it was like, okay, you’re right. People have twisted my story to the point where it is unrecognizable.

(25:04):

So we are going to untwist that story to the best degree that we can. And I think that from my perspective, I remember our first kind of meeting about it, Bob, I came out, I didn’t even know if we were actually going to film. I brought my cameras, but I wasn’t sure. We never really said, we’re definitely filming this. And then Bob said, the one thing is just don’t sensationalize or make anything up and you can have complete access. And first thing he did is give me his phone number to his mom. I mean, it was like totally open. So I’m sitting here with a different perspective. I think where I’m watching this, and I’m sorry I’m listening to this right now, and I’m so glad we made this movie because that is the core of the story we need to look at it through today. I think that’s why Bob probably said okay, was because it had gotten so twisted, it needed to be untwisted so at least people can hear his story and judge for themselves. That’s all he has ever asked is that you listen, don’t dismiss it and judge for yourself.

George Knapp (26:07):

I thought the material from your mom Bob was pretty moving in that I remember back when we started down this road, your mom and dad were off limits. You didn’t really want me talking to them, but your mom, you told her the same story you told me. You told her the same story you told your wife, they believe you. And I think it’s a powerful thing that would you make this up to your mom and your wife that’s very different from the typical UFO scenario?

Bob Lazar (26:38):

No, my mom and dad at that time were off limits because they were easily frightened and a lot was going on a lot more in the eighties, as you know at this time. And I was really concerned that adding them to the equation could really be a problem. I didn’t want them disturbed in any way. So now a lot of time has gone by and my dad has since died and my mom’s in her upper eighties, so I don’t think anybody’s going to cause any problems. But if

Jeremy Corbell (27:19):

I want to tell you something, I’m sorry, Bob, I just got to say something.

Bob Lazar (27:22):

No, go ahead.

Jeremy Corbell (27:25):

When he gave me access to the people in his life, I would meet with them. I would meet them with them in different states. I would go somebody, Mario came to California, pioneer town. They would come over, they would meet me and they’d say, Bob says, I can completely be open with you, anything you want, record, and we’ll talk about it straightforward, no holds barred. Bob didn’t say, oh, don’t tell him this. Don’t tell him that. Bob said, just talk to him. Tell him whatever is true to you, whatever’s going on with you, tell ’em. And I just want to make that point really clear what happened. So that’s what you’re going to see in the film.

George Knapp (28:07):

There’s an interview with

Jeremy Corbell (28:08):

The one thing I’d like

Bob Lazar (28:09):

To address is my motivation. I don’t understand, A lot of people come up with different stories, but really you need to explain to me what might a motivation would be to make up a story like this. And I’ve said it before I said it in the movie, I can absolutely make up a better story. There’s so many loose ends in this thing, but for people that think there’s a big payout or a bunch of money involved, that’s ridiculous. I have avoided doing anything than maybe once every 30 years, any kind lectures. I’ve had so many offers to do, so many things, and I won’t do ’em specifically because there’s money attached to it. And I don’t want to give the idea this is being done for money. In fact, we had a pre premiere of the movie up in northern Michigan, and we had, it was a donations only, and they took in four figures worth of cash from the movie, and I absolutely didn’t want any of that money. We had it donated to the science programs in the schools in the general area up there. But this has been my thought through the whole thing that there’s just no motivation for me to do this. I hate attention. I cringe when people ask me to go on a radio show like this, and I’m not looking for the attention. I absolutely don’t need or want the money I do find for myself, please tell me why I would do this.

Jeremy Corbell (29:57):

But you do want people to know something, and that I think is one of the thrusts of my film, was to convey a message for you. And so I do believe that you’re talking to me because you do want people to know something.

Bob Lazar (30:12):

Oh, I do. I do. I absolutely do. I’m saying, why would I want to make up a story that wasn’t true?

Jeremy Corbell (30:21):

Right? But what is it that you want people to know?

Bob Lazar (30:24):

I want ’em to know exactly what happened. I wanted to know. There was extremely advanced technology that did not come from humans that was being researched out at S four in the eighties. I have no idea where things are now, but when I was there, this is a really, really big event that has been completely squashed by the government.

George Knapp (30:57):

We live in an interesting time, Bob, and back then, you didn’t see a lot of UFO stories on the news other than a few programs that I had done, at least in the local news, it wasn’t given much credibility and it over the ensuing 30 years, it generally is treated like dirt. People in my line of work make fun of UFO witnesses and UFO stories and don’t give ’em much credence. But in the last 11 months, things have changed the New York Times. I know. Don’t you followed you all that closely, but in working with Jeremy, you’ve heard about the Tic-Tac video released by the Pentagon. You met, we met Tom DeLong at the one event, the one public event that we did together back in 2015. And a lot of interesting things have changed. I mean, the subject is being taken seriously. Are you up on any of that stuff? What do you think about that Tic-Tac video and is it getting perilously close to the point where your story converges with other things that are unfolding?

Bob Lazar (31:58):

Yeah, I really think they are beginning to converge. And in general, I don’t follow UFO lore, UFO stories. I don’t look into accounts or any of that. I am not, however, that being said, the tic-tac stuff really, really interests me, and I would love to know more information about that. The craft behaves like it’s a reaction less vehicle. It just reeks of the drive mechanism that I worked. It S four. So I am really, there’s finally a UFO story that’s really caught my attention.

George Knapp (32:54):

You were inside one of the craft, right? And remember in our stories, our first stories, you talked about seeing a test flight, one flight, just a little bit off the tarmac out there, but you were inside one of the craft, right?

Bob Lazar (33:08):

Yeah, I was permitted inside to see the components that I was working on were a power and propulsion system, and they were on different levels in the craft. And as I’ve mentioned before, there’s no physical connection between the components and sub components. There’s no wiring. They just need to be near each other to operate. So because the placement might be critical was the only reason I was allowed in the craft to see where these devices were. That’s when it became incredibly clear that a human would never build such an uncomfortable craft for a human body. It was clearly built for something that was much smaller than us, probably half the size. But the technology was amazing. The power levels that these systems operated at were absolutely mind boggling, yet there was nothing between them to conduct any energy. It was quite fascinating. And everything you see is, as I’ve mentioned before, everything is smooth and rounded everywhere. There are never any sharp corners. And that’s even what caught my attention about the tic-tac. Again, it’s a completely smooth rounded object and really moved around and behaved like it was a gravity propelled craft.

George Knapp (34:42):

And is the shape significant? Is that significant compared to, say, the sport model? Is there a reason for those shapes?

Bob Lazar (34:52):

Yeah, I mean, generally when you see one of the byproducts of the way the reactor works in the craft, it produces, I dunno if it’s a byproduct or an intended product, but it produces extremely high voltages. And high voltages are contained by rounded objects. That’s why you see vani graft generators. And if you ever see pictures of giant high voltage things, everything has big rounded shapes to it, any sharp edges will allow electrons to stream off or create discharge points. So everything has really kept in a rounded fashion. And since everything seemed to have a function, there was nothing done for aesthetics in the craft. There was no coloring or any of that sort of thing. So clearly the fact that it’s rounded was for a purpose.

George Knapp (35:49):

So I’m wondering if the sport model were to take a flight over the Nellis range and a military pilot comes across it and has gun camera equipment, if the sport model would look like and act like the tic-tac, I know this is speculation on your part, but I mean, could we be talking about the same basic technology?

Bob Lazar (36:16):

Well, it depends on the angle that he’s used it from. As you remember, my supervisor took me out once the craft lifted off the ground and was probably, I don’t know, maybe 50, 60 feet in the air. He said, walk forward towards it. And as I began to walk under the craft that was now above my head, I could see the sky above it and not the craft, which is a really fascinating thing and an image in my mind that I will never, ever forget. It almost has a distortion, like if you’ve seen some hot tarmac or roadway in the summertime where you see the

George Knapp (37:05):

Waves,

Bob Lazar (37:05):

Thermal distortions coming off of it as you approach it, the craft looks like that, but then you can’t see the craft. You can only see the sky above it. It’s the way gravity bends light. So there are some points you can’t see the craft at all. I mean, it’s the ultimate stealth, but from other points, you certainly can. It just depends on, and maybe from other vantage points, the craft shape might be distorted or look like a tic-tac for all I know. Who knows, but

George Knapp (37:36):

All right, we’re talking with Bob Lazar and Jeremy Corbell about UFOs ET technology coming up. Gravity secrecy and Element one 15.